Another Perspective On The American Airlines Strollergate Incident

Another Perspective On The American Airlines Strollergate Incident

48

There’s another first-hand account of the events that led to the altercation between the flight attendant and the mother of twins onboard an American Airlines flight recently.

Previously, we really only had video of the aftermath of the situation which mostly consisted of a woman sobbing in the front of the cabin and a first class passenger trying to aggressively defend her. We didn’t know much about what went on to cause all of that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSZJJ0SAowU

Well, this version provides a good bit of detail about what went on at the back of the plane. “Eric” was a passenger seated toward the back of the plane. He shared what he observed with Gailen Lee David who posted it on his Facebook page. I think before we go any further, it’s worth pointing out that David is a former American Airlines flight attendant who was fired by the company. That may or may not influence what he posts, but it is worth noting.

Anyway, Matthew over at Live and Let’s Fly did a nice job of formatting “Eric’s” story to make it more readable so I’m going to share that version here.

I was on this flight directly across the isle from the woman filming the video. This is what I observed:

1.) woman gets on the plane pushing a car seat type stroller with one child in it, carrying a second child on her hip and dragging behind a very large folded stroller that was too big for the overhead bin or to go under a seat.

2.) the flight attendant shown in the video approached from the back of the plane and informed her in a calm manner that there was nowhere to store the stroller. The woman immediately escalated the situation and within about 30 seconds was screaming at him at the top of her lungs.

3.) the flight attendant evidently decided she was not fit to be on the flight (in my opinion the correct decision) and started to move her and her children towards the front of the plane.

4.) when they got to the from of the plane the woman decided she was not going any further. The flight attendant picked up the stroller and lifted it over his head to try and move past the woman. As he was doing this she pushed him and the stroller fell a bit and struck her in the face. She began crying loudly and dramatically. Shortly after this is where the video begins.

5.) The first class passenger then inserts himself into the drama with his faux chivalry but clearly has no idea what has transpired in the back of the plane since he was in a window seat in the first class section of the plane and could not have viewed the incident from his seat.

6.) after another 10 minutes or so the woman exits the plane only to be returned about 5 minutes later and taken to her seat. We wait another 30-40 minutes while various flight and ground crew come and go speaking to the woman. After about 40 minutes she deplanes again this time telling all of the passengers, who are now becoming vocal in support of the flight crew, that all she wanted was an apology from the flight attendant. Evidently that’s what the 40 minute delay was all about. Then we waited another 10 minutes for the ground crew to find and remove her luggage from the belly of the plane.

7.) the flight finally leaves and arrives in Dallas an hour or so late. American representatives are waiting at the gate to speak with the first class passenger who made the threats. What I heard was a very apologetic tone coming from two American employees, as if the airline had done something to upset the first class passenger.

8.) when I entered the bag claim area the first class passenger was right in front of me and as soon as he made it through the revolving door there was a camera crew waiting for him on the other side to interview him.

That’s about as factual of an account as I can provide and I realize there may be other parts of this story that I do not know about or did not witness.

From what I saw:

a.) if anyone from American should have been punished it should be the ground crew who somehow letting this woman on board with a full size stroller. The flight attendant was put in a horrible situation by a passenger that most passengers in my immediate area thought seemed unstable. She escalated the situation, not him.

b.) in my opinion, the first class passenger should have been removed. Had the flight been in progress he might very well have been arrested upon landing for threatening a crew member. Additionally, he could not have seen any of the back of the plane antics of the woman based on where he was seated.

c.) I agree the flight attendant may have reacted too harshly in responding to the threatening customer in first class, but his actions with the woman in question were professional throughout the ordeal. I am disappointed American has chosen to punish him.

My thoughts

I think this account of the story jibes reasonably well with what we had already heard. I can imagine that the flight attendant did approach her calmly as he should have. But then she escalated the situation, and he escalated it some more. And then the cameras started rolling, and here we are.

In my mind, there’s really no justification for a flight attendant to respond that way even if she did yell at him. And it seems like American agrees based on their statement.

I’ve flown on dozens and dozens of international flights with kids, and I simply cannot imagine this situation happening on an Asian or European airline. (Or really anywhere else.) Why are our US flight attendants so quick to escalate a situation? Certainly they don’t all do this — it’s really just a few bad apples — but it seems that these incidents happen with far greater frequency here than anywhere else in the world.

storller brussels airline

Bottom line

I think this account helps shed some more light on what took place at the beginning of the strollergate incident. I can pretty easily imagine that the male flight attendant approached her calmly and that she responded by raising her voice at the flight attendant. Traveling with kids is tough. My wife, who is a very experienced traveler, has certainly raised her voice at a few flight attendants over the years who were trying to tell her how she needed to do something related to the kids. But you’re not going to help the situation by yelling back at her — I’ve learned that the hard way.

And no matter how right you think you may be, you’ll never win in the court of public opinion by yelling at a mother with a baby in her arms.

What do you make of this new bit of information?

Conversations (48)
The comments on this page have not been provided, reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any advertiser, and it is not an advertiser's responsibility to ensure posts and/or questions are answered.
Type your response here.

If you'd like to participate in the discussion, please adhere to our commenting guidelines. Anyone can comment, and your email address will not be published. Register to save your unique username and earn special OMAAT reputation perks!

  1. NY Nightingale Guest

    I think I can see the incident from both sides having been in the passenger's shoes a time or two, and also having had a son who was employed by the airlines for many years. I know that the woman travelling alone with two babies was stressed and edgy, while the FA felt pressed to get the flight boarded and away from the gate. The entire "situation" could have been avoided by having the woman's...

    I think I can see the incident from both sides having been in the passenger's shoes a time or two, and also having had a son who was employed by the airlines for many years. I know that the woman travelling alone with two babies was stressed and edgy, while the FA felt pressed to get the flight boarded and away from the gate. The entire "situation" could have been avoided by having the woman's strollers tagged and put in the hold at the door of the jet. If the passenger needed assistance with her infants when changing planes, a wheelchair or courtesy cart could have been arranged to transport her to her connecting flight. This would have eased things for her, the flight crew AND the rest of the passengers, getting them off the ground on time.

  2. Kent Guest

    Hi Travis,
    You mention high tension. America is a competitive country, many high stressed, high paying jobs (some not so high paying but still stressful) for people. This includes the crew as well as the passengers.
    The tension in America just got alot higher the last two weeks whether many realize that or not.
    Love of what we do, passion and compassion can solve many of these situations. "That" is not in...

    Hi Travis,
    You mention high tension. America is a competitive country, many high stressed, high paying jobs (some not so high paying but still stressful) for people. This includes the crew as well as the passengers.
    The tension in America just got alot higher the last two weeks whether many realize that or not.
    Love of what we do, passion and compassion can solve many of these situations. "That" is not in over supply in America at this time (it exists surely as we see stories, we experience it ourselves in our lives of goodness in people).
    We all have this wonderful compassion in our hearts. The competitive society does not persuade us to show it. But surely we have all observed it, we see it when people bring flowers to the point of incident to remember the fallen person, police or other. Some bring thoughts, some bring prayers. They are allowed, they are not encouraged.
    Let us encourage them. God Bless.

  3. Drukyulgoods New Member

    I'm not going to wade into the whom did or should have done what to whom discussion here. This incident should be a signal to the industry that they have pushed the add-on revenues/restrictions for their customer base to the limit. Domestic customers are being pushed fairly hard nowadays by the big 4 with increasing add-on fees, reduced cabin space, and other restrictions in order to get from here to there. Couple this with the...

    I'm not going to wade into the whom did or should have done what to whom discussion here. This incident should be a signal to the industry that they have pushed the add-on revenues/restrictions for their customer base to the limit. Domestic customers are being pushed fairly hard nowadays by the big 4 with increasing add-on fees, reduced cabin space, and other restrictions in order to get from here to there. Couple this with the increasing security measures for rightful reasons. Many, including myself, at times arrived at the departure gate under great stress at zero fault to the carrier. I can't even imagine my mother's stress when myself and 3 siblings traveled years ago on a TWA Constellation to Europe. Yes, times were different way back then. Additionally, as many has cited, Alcohol consumption in the terminals is increasing exponentially over the past years which perhaps could be a 'release' of said travel stress. A week doesn't go bye where one hears of flight from wherever to wherever being diverted due to an unruly passenger who has way too many. Is there a connection? Who knows. All I know that most folks walking down the aisle nowadays are not happy. I see it daily. $0.02 deposited.

  4. Vernelle Guest

    All I would like to address, is him saying the ground crew should be blamed for letting her on with the stroller in the first place. No wonder he was fired, because no ground crew for any airline controls what goes to the gate and does not get checked in. That's all done with the ticket agents and then the final say are the gate agents. All the ground crew does is deal with the...

    All I would like to address, is him saying the ground crew should be blamed for letting her on with the stroller in the first place. No wonder he was fired, because no ground crew for any airline controls what goes to the gate and does not get checked in. That's all done with the ticket agents and then the final say are the gate agents. All the ground crew does is deal with the items that are checked and it's at that time, they can decide if an item doesn't go with all the other items at the bottom of the plane... (Ground crew)

  5. Adrian Guest

    I actually don't believe one bit of this so-called "eyewitness" account! There are way too many problems and I presume there will be a much different reaction from American Airlines if this is true. I think it might be a fabricated post from AA's union to defend the F/A. Truly American Airlines will not take that strong tone without the previous nightmare situation with United, and American Airlines might overreact a little bit, but their...

    I actually don't believe one bit of this so-called "eyewitness" account! There are way too many problems and I presume there will be a much different reaction from American Airlines if this is true. I think it might be a fabricated post from AA's union to defend the F/A. Truly American Airlines will not take that strong tone without the previous nightmare situation with United, and American Airlines might overreact a little bit, but their sincere apology makes this story stopped within 24 hours. The outrage is mellowed out after knowing that the F/A was suspended and the passenger made it back to Europe fine and in comfort. Plus what the male F/A did in front of the camera was indefensible even if this so-called "new" story is true or even if the mother pictures are ten times worst. You are in a customer service industry and American Airlines is a global airline and handling non-native English speakers is basically a daily thing. Plus the stroller situation is handled differently around the world and there is no global standard. Yes it is frustrating but you are in the customer service industry.
    You simply never CONFRONT a passenger in that manner. That interaction between the first class passenger and the male F/A is simply wrong. The plane is not a BAR. That male F/A should be let go or move to a position that does not need him to talk to a passenger directly.
    About throwing out the first class passenger, it is just obnoxious to suggest that and I know "the Point Guy" suggested it, which is nuts. Yes he confronted a F/A but is not a security threat. He is just standing up for his fellow passenger. The pilot was also standing there the whole time (but I still think that he could do more to defuse the situation) and if this first class passenger was a threat, he would have thrown him out.
    I support unions but the reaction from AA union is just nuts and when you need public sympathy, you won't get it.

  6. Johnny Guest

    These airline employees are OUT OF CONTROL since 911. They are rude, largely obnoxious in how they deal with any situation, and been given way too much power in general. The overall customer experience is horrible. They forget that people pay to fly. Thus making them CUSTOMERS!! I hope people respond to this the same way they did with the United airlines incident.

  7. Carrie Gold

    This could not occur in Australia as all strollers are required to be checked The travelling public are all well aware of this rule and comply on the understanding that to do so avoids any incidents such as witnessed in this case. As a parent of five children, I have sympathy with the mother in question but strollers have no place on board a commercial flight and neither should parents behave in an entitled manner just because they have children.

  8. VJ Guest

    1. Like another commenter pointed out, people are bringing in way too much luggage into cabins causing inefficient and delayed boarding, fight for overhead space, crowding at boarding gates/lines to board first. Airlines should start charging for cabin baggage instead of checked baggage because cabin baggage space is restricted while checked baggage space is much much larger.
    2. Airports should provide free strollers for transit within airport. Some of the middle eastern airports already...

    1. Like another commenter pointed out, people are bringing in way too much luggage into cabins causing inefficient and delayed boarding, fight for overhead space, crowding at boarding gates/lines to board first. Airlines should start charging for cabin baggage instead of checked baggage because cabin baggage space is restricted while checked baggage space is much much larger.
    2. Airports should provide free strollers for transit within airport. Some of the middle eastern airports already do this.
    3. Airlines should be able to provide stroller assistance just like wheelchair assistance and be able to guarantee a stroller waiting at the gate on exit.

  9. Hoov Guest

    Of course Tim Carter people bring too much luggage on board now a days. AA also charges to check a bag, they are complicit.

  10. W Guest

    The woman was at fault here mostly, the flight attendant's only mistake was human anger got the best of him and didn't manage to respond professionally.

  11. azamaraal Diamond

    Took a flight with extended family from DXB - CAI aboard Egypt Air A300 on 1991. Flight did not have assigned seating. Everyone boarded then airline found they had too much luggage so started putting bags into the last 20 rows of seating in the airplane and started ejecting passengers seated therein.

    Resulting fracas require police action as fist fights commenced between those who were being ejected and others in the cabin - other passengers...

    Took a flight with extended family from DXB - CAI aboard Egypt Air A300 on 1991. Flight did not have assigned seating. Everyone boarded then airline found they had too much luggage so started putting bags into the last 20 rows of seating in the airplane and started ejecting passengers seated therein.

    Resulting fracas require police action as fist fights commenced between those who were being ejected and others in the cabin - other passengers who they thought boarded after them and the flight attendants etc.

    Flight was delayed several hours as the mess was cleaned up at the back.

    Eventually flew to Cairo with the back part of the plane full of unsecured luggage. Luckily was a smooth flight so bags stayed in place.

    So don't claim that this sort of thing only happens in the US. Truthfully, everyone cues in North America so the problems are very low level when they occur.

    Noting the size of the second child seat and the luggage tag it was already sporting it is clear that the PAX knew there would be a problem and already had a plan of 'action' decided upon. Too bad that this kind of behavior is rewarded.

  12. Tim Carter Guest

    As an outsider that travels a lot, looking at all American airline companies I make one observation.
    People bring FAR TOO MUCH as carry on luggage- period. In other parts of the world you would never get away taking the rediculous amounts people are trying to bring onboard. If the airlines took a proper common policy of luggage size and enforced it without fear or favour there would be no problem. When travelling in...

    As an outsider that travels a lot, looking at all American airline companies I make one observation.
    People bring FAR TOO MUCH as carry on luggage- period. In other parts of the world you would never get away taking the rediculous amounts people are trying to bring onboard. If the airlines took a proper common policy of luggage size and enforced it without fear or favour there would be no problem. When travelling in the US I regularly see people with insane amounts of luggage trying to bring it on board.
    The airlines should enforce these limits vigorously but I suspect they view it as though they don't have to pay baggage handlers to unload it this way hence they save money and force the issue onto the flyer and the cabin crew who they have to pay in any case regardless of the issues.
    Stop this way before it becomes a problem - weigh and check for size it at check in and if checking in online at security. If it doesn't meet the requirements they have to check it in. Pretty simple really.

  13. Betty Guest

    Now I see that the "flight attendant" (flying waiters and waitresses as my husband refers to them) union is blaming the airlines for this mess. Bottom line - if you can't do YOUR job as a flight attendant - you should find another job!

  14. dave Guest

    I'm with VoiceOfReason - the White Knight is a clown - he already thinks the woman was assaulted so why didn't he just start throwing down?

  15. Emily S. Guest

    All this mess has a lot to do with raising fuel costs. This precipitates to weight restriction and higher seat density. Airlines want to boost profits under the pressure of investors (shareholders). All that means GREED has governed the way we live and is shaping how our society looks like today.

    What happened on this AA flight and the UA flight earlier are just consequences of the fundamental problem in our society today. I...

    All this mess has a lot to do with raising fuel costs. This precipitates to weight restriction and higher seat density. Airlines want to boost profits under the pressure of investors (shareholders). All that means GREED has governed the way we live and is shaping how our society looks like today.

    What happened on this AA flight and the UA flight earlier are just consequences of the fundamental problem in our society today. I expect things are going to get worse because population keeps increasing while resources are becoming more limited. Everyone is trying to survive while others want more. The equation can only lead to one thing: chaos.

  16. Emily S. Guest

    I agree with some of the comments about the man who picked the fight with the FA. The way he came across would have and should have gotten him a big blow in the face in a bar setting.

    Traveling these days can be very stressful, more so than years before without the intense security at the airport. TSA attitudes and behaviors and policies have worsen the stress of travel. The fuel is there...

    I agree with some of the comments about the man who picked the fight with the FA. The way he came across would have and should have gotten him a big blow in the face in a bar setting.

    Traveling these days can be very stressful, more so than years before without the intense security at the airport. TSA attitudes and behaviors and policies have worsen the stress of travel. The fuel is there and the condition is volatile. Airport is a horrible place these days. I myself have been trying to avoid flying as much as I can.

    In this particular case, I think American Airlines handled it far much better than United. In fact, in general and even before Dr. Dao's incident, United was a horrible airlines with very poor customer service records. I boycotted United Airlines some 15 years ago!

    Outside of the US, I think Norwegian airlines (or they call themselves "air shuttle") is perhaps the worst of European carriers. You think United is bad? Try Norwegian Air Shuttle. They are worse than horrible.

  17. Loop Seven Guest

    Definitely agree the first class passenger should have been removed. He had zero clue and I get the impression he's a hot head in general; we all know these types.

    I now empathize with the crew. They have jobs that are becoming more and more demanding and complex.

  18. JH Guest

    Here's a simple solution to ALL airline carry-on bags...they MUST be checked as luggage except one small carry-on bag. This stuff of everyone bringing on "everything but the kitchen sink" is ridiculous! Airlines have to start enforcing this on EVERY flight.

  19. psyched Guest

    There is some truth to the statement above that this generally doesn't happen on European or Asian airlines due to the fact of societal make up.

    In Asia there is generally a sense of servitude afforded to customers and a seemingly hyper awareness on branding and image and how people perceive you--just look at grooming standards of asian flight attendants and american ones.

    Europe on the other hand is a society that is more...

    There is some truth to the statement above that this generally doesn't happen on European or Asian airlines due to the fact of societal make up.

    In Asia there is generally a sense of servitude afforded to customers and a seemingly hyper awareness on branding and image and how people perceive you--just look at grooming standards of asian flight attendants and american ones.

    Europe on the other hand is a society that is more ready to compromise. Although Europe has a sense of entitlement brought by its wealth (northern Europe specifically), europeans live in a more egalitarian society where heavy EU regulations has provided a safety net for individuals and has sort of dictated the way of life for the past 20 or so years. For example, the handling and compensation of delayed, cancelled flights or when a person is denied boarding is clearly written out and made available to anyone who can read. These rules usually put the consumer at the forefront and offer him unbridled protection & clarity yet to be seen in other parts of the developed world. It's black and white.

    Americans with their over-entitled, bratty attitudes and blatant disregard for the well-being of others are like matches--you just need a small amount friction and boom.

  20. Stella Guest

    This "first-hand" account by an anonymous traveler sounds as if it was written either by American Airlines' PR department or, more likely, a friend of the suspended FA.

    A number of his/her allegations are not in agreement with those of other passengers.

  21. gmid2006 Guest

    This is the new way for flying on airlines now.

    1st create a problem by doing something not allowed boarding the plane.

    2. yell at the attendant when they tell you that you can not do this.

    3 Keep pushing all the attendant's button until they lose their cool.

    4 Make sure someone is videoing the part when the attendant lose their cool.

    5 Make sure you cry and look like a victim.

    6. Get...

    This is the new way for flying on airlines now.

    1st create a problem by doing something not allowed boarding the plane.

    2. yell at the attendant when they tell you that you can not do this.

    3 Keep pushing all the attendant's button until they lose their cool.

    4 Make sure someone is videoing the part when the attendant lose their cool.

    5 Make sure you cry and look like a victim.

    6. Get a lawyer and wait for all the money to come in.

    7 fly another airline and repeat the process all over again.

  22. Captain Kirk Guest

    Two lessons here.

    1.) Follow the rules. Don't bring full size strollers you know aren't going to fit in the overhead.

    2.) If you aren't involved. BUTT OUT. You don't have any business getting involved in a situation you A. Aren't a part of, and B. have half the information about. These eavesdroppers and nosy busybodies need to shut their traps and stay out of it. Treat these flight incidents like you would...

    Two lessons here.

    1.) Follow the rules. Don't bring full size strollers you know aren't going to fit in the overhead.

    2.) If you aren't involved. BUTT OUT. You don't have any business getting involved in a situation you A. Aren't a part of, and B. have half the information about. These eavesdroppers and nosy busybodies need to shut their traps and stay out of it. Treat these flight incidents like you would a domestic dispute. Let the authorities and crew handle it. That's why the whole leggings thing was even a story on UA. Some nosy @$$hat woman decided to stick her nose in where it didn't belong and she had half the information and goes to a public forum to bash an airline when she has NO IDEA what she's talking about.

  23. Donna Diamond

    I feel for any woman I her situation - been there myself a few times, many years ago. Now whenever I see a solo woman traveling with infants and toddlers in the gate area I always offer to assist in boarding. It's a small thing and trust me, it means a lot. Air travel is hard enough for us road warriors just imagine about how hard it is for women in her situation? Lots of...

    I feel for any woman I her situation - been there myself a few times, many years ago. Now whenever I see a solo woman traveling with infants and toddlers in the gate area I always offer to assist in boarding. It's a small thing and trust me, it means a lot. Air travel is hard enough for us road warriors just imagine about how hard it is for women in her situation? Lots of military wives with small children are forced into this solo travel mode due to deployments and overseas duty of their spouses and you see them often on flights to Europe.

    And yes, the traveling public is loaded with jerks. It takes a certain kind of person who can remain civil in dealing with the public in repetitive stressful situations day in and day out. Obviously some airline employees are not capable of diffusing situations and should find other employment.

  24. Joey Diamond

    Are strollers even allowed on the plane?!?!?!?!?! I always had to gate check mine when I travelled with kids.

  25. chasgoose Gold

    I thought that I read that the woman was told by another FA that she could bring the stroller on the plane with her. That and the fact that it seemed like English wasn't her first language probably led to her being confused and might have contributed to her supposedly hostile response to the FA when he ordered her to gate check it. Ultimately its the FA's job to descalate, not the customers and I...

    I thought that I read that the woman was told by another FA that she could bring the stroller on the plane with her. That and the fact that it seemed like English wasn't her first language probably led to her being confused and might have contributed to her supposedly hostile response to the FA when he ordered her to gate check it. Ultimately its the FA's job to descalate, not the customers and I totally understand why she had a breakdown and had an out-of-proportion response to what went down after. That FA was clearly in a very agitated state by the time the first class passenger decided to get involved in other people's business, there is no way he handled that situation in a completely calm manner.

  26. stan Guest

    "3.) the flight attendant evidently decided she was not fit to be on the flight (in my opinion the correct decision) and started to move her and her children towards the front of the plane."

    this is where it always goes wrong. always. this is where we always see the tradition from "customer service" to "RESPECT MY AUTHORITY". i probably have 1200 flights under my belt, and i have seen WONDERFUL flight attendants de-escalate situations...

    "3.) the flight attendant evidently decided she was not fit to be on the flight (in my opinion the correct decision) and started to move her and her children towards the front of the plane."

    this is where it always goes wrong. always. this is where we always see the tradition from "customer service" to "RESPECT MY AUTHORITY". i probably have 1200 flights under my belt, and i have seen WONDERFUL flight attendants de-escalate situations far dicier than lady-with-kids-and-stroller. she may not have been "right", but the FA wasn't either and it's his job to resolve things.

    this stuff from a bitter ex-FA changes nothing.

  27. b6-fly Guest

    So this type of thing does happen all the time in other countries. Perhaps Americans get away with more due to the language barrier but I can guarantee that anyone who has flown on a Chinese airline has seen the flight attendants slap personal electronics out of the passengers' hands quite harshly. The problem is that Americans are too entitled, and flying in the US has become very cheap.

    1. Steve Guest

      I've flown Chinese airlines MANY times and have NEVER seen what you described (flight attendants slapping electronics out of people's hands). And when I've been told to to turn mine off, it's always very politely and never aggressively. I can't really picture an non-american flight attendant yelling at passengers like that.

  28. AAExPlat Guest

    I would bet that this account was posted by a union employee....

  29. Gertie Saunders Guest

    If you watch a video, and of a man , pushing a women, or even dragging her a few yards it looks bad?? but what happens, if the man just happens to see, that something is going to fall on her from above, or a car has mounted the pavement/sidewalk, and he is pushing, pulling her from danger? What I mean is a video is a great tool. with all other information. I have traveled...

    If you watch a video, and of a man , pushing a women, or even dragging her a few yards it looks bad?? but what happens, if the man just happens to see, that something is going to fall on her from above, or a car has mounted the pavement/sidewalk, and he is pushing, pulling her from danger? What I mean is a video is a great tool. with all other information. I have traveled with 4 young children, and know, that buggy,s /strollers, unless , really compact, have to be checked in at the gate,Is this the first time this lady has flown(in the USA), does she not understand the rules,?The gate agents usually do a great job, (Delta does)asking, and going around to ticket baby seats, strollers, prior to boarding,The gate agents now ask if Anyone needing extra time, or with kids, etc, wish to board early,. Me thinks,this may just be a case of Compensation, but, I,ll get all the facts first, Ha Ha.

  30. Prabuddha Guest

    Well the simple solution to this kind of situation is have a rule 1 infant per adult in a travelling party or you pay an unaccompanied minor fee where the flight attendants will help you with the second infant. its rare enough (twins) that it doesnt affect many people.
    Secondly parents with small children should be allowed to board in advance so that all this can be settled before there are more passengers in...

    Well the simple solution to this kind of situation is have a rule 1 infant per adult in a travelling party or you pay an unaccompanied minor fee where the flight attendants will help you with the second infant. its rare enough (twins) that it doesnt affect many people.
    Secondly parents with small children should be allowed to board in advance so that all this can be settled before there are more passengers in the aisles hence raising tension
    Thirdly strollers should not be allowed on board with statements like see if you can find space. This was probably allowed because she had 2 kids and no way to get to the seat without the stroller. Again see point 1. With one infant in arms you do not need a stroller to get to your seat.
    Fourthly this lady had a connecting flight where she needed the stroller to transit . Which is why she was reluctant to give it up. Explain to her that gate checked strollers will be available to her at the transit airport. Else treat it like wheelchairs. Have her check in stroller at baggage checkin and provide a loaner till the plane and again at the transit airport.
    Fifthly don't shout on crazy passengers. Most passengers don't fly everyday. Flying is a stressful situation for them and even normal folks can behave crazy. Flight attendants are supposed to be the trained person in the cabin. Even if someone is hysterical there are other ways to deal with the situation.
    Finally if some busybody who doesnt know the whole story tries to interfere and showboat remind them calmly that they dont know the whole story and tell them to sit down. THis can be done without shouting at them. See point 5

  31. SullyofDoha Gold

    Yep, just as I thought would happen. The faux crying mother has lawyered up and is looking for her payday :p

  32. Sad Guest

    The "other perspective" loses all credibility when the author claims to be sitting across the aisle from the "woman taking the video".

    Surain Adyanthaya is a man. This person couldn't even get the gender correct of the person whose arguments they were trying to counter. So this person either wasn't there or wasn't truly paying as much attention to the situation as they claimed.

    At that point, the "other perspective" provider loses the case to...

    The "other perspective" loses all credibility when the author claims to be sitting across the aisle from the "woman taking the video".

    Surain Adyanthaya is a man. This person couldn't even get the gender correct of the person whose arguments they were trying to counter. So this person either wasn't there or wasn't truly paying as much attention to the situation as they claimed.

    At that point, the "other perspective" provider loses the case to be able to say that they were able to piece together anything from what they themselves witnessed. It also doesn't help that the person was either an FA or a former FA...they lose all ability to be credible or neutral in this discussion.

  33. Daniel Guest

    The lady obviously has fault, BUT
    FAs are supposed to be trained to deescalate the problem and try to resolve problem in a proper manner. It's like saying the kid disobeyed the cop and started screaming, so the cops can shoot him. No, the cop is supposed to deescalate the problem and try to resolve in peaceful manner. That's their job.

    Now, I understand that the FAs are currently in tremendous pressure and stress...

    The lady obviously has fault, BUT
    FAs are supposed to be trained to deescalate the problem and try to resolve problem in a proper manner. It's like saying the kid disobeyed the cop and started screaming, so the cops can shoot him. No, the cop is supposed to deescalate the problem and try to resolve in peaceful manner. That's their job.

    Now, I understand that the FAs are currently in tremendous pressure and stress due to rather harsh working environment. So I'm not blaming FA per se. But blaming just the customer won't prevent any problem like this and doesn't actually improve the industry. There's something fundamentally wrong when the executives and the airlines are raking in gigantic dough but the FAs and customers are getting constantly crushed both figurative and literally in their seats. The majority of the blame should be on the airline and its executives which are dehumanizing customers and its low level employees.

    There is a concept called Heinlich's Law. It stipulates that 1 big events usually follows several medium events which usually follows many small events. This kind of airline incidents could be happening because there are many smaller conflicts that aren't being reported because it's so minor. And I'm afraid something bigger than the Dao's incidents will happen if this entire industry doesn't do certain self-reflection.

  34. Decades Guest

    This account of the incident makes little sense, I believe it is not genuine.

    1. A man filmed the incident, not a woman.
    2. Another eyewitness account (not an anonymous witness, as is here) from the rear of the plane stated the stroller was a small one, folded down to the size of a briefcase, and was later able to be put into the overhead by another FA.
    3. This witness, claiming...

    This account of the incident makes little sense, I believe it is not genuine.

    1. A man filmed the incident, not a woman.
    2. Another eyewitness account (not an anonymous witness, as is here) from the rear of the plane stated the stroller was a small one, folded down to the size of a briefcase, and was later able to be put into the overhead by another FA.
    3. This witness, claiming to be in a FC aisle seat, is highly unlikely to be able to maintain an unobstructed sight-line of an incident in the rear of the plane during boarding, or be able to hear the conversation.
    4. No other witnesses in FC have stated the mother pushed the FA, or even placed her hands on him. At the start of the video you can hear several FC passengers making statements that the FA hit the mother.
    5. Mr. "Faux Chivalry" (as he is referred to here), whether he was right or wrong in confronting the FA, is clearly appalled at having seen this woman get hit in the head.
    6. There have been ZERO witnesses, witnesses that were NOT anonymous, that have supported the FA's actions.

    Travis, you lose credibility when you post anonymous accounts, that no other source confirms, as fact.

  35. Jeff Guest

    The reaction of the flight attendant is still terrible. Those of us who fly regularly understand that most strollers aren't going to fit as carryons and are almost always gate checked.

  36. Carole Guest

    I agree with ^ Albert. This lady had twin toddlers. I can only imagine what security et al was like up to this point ("Just have your child walk through ahead of you, ma'am. None of us have children and the cat-like reflexes required, but I'm sure we will make sure this child doesn't bolt and run down the terminal."). I've traveled with two small children and been frantic when it was suggested I check...

    I agree with ^ Albert. This lady had twin toddlers. I can only imagine what security et al was like up to this point ("Just have your child walk through ahead of you, ma'am. None of us have children and the cat-like reflexes required, but I'm sure we will make sure this child doesn't bolt and run down the terminal."). I've traveled with two small children and been frantic when it was suggested I check a stroller. Yes. She probably was hysterical and out of her mind at this point in the game, but any moron could figure out there needed to be some sort of resolution for a less-than-stellar situation. And let's not go down the "she shouldn't have been traveling by herself with two small children" route. Please.

  37. stvr Guest

    you liking the clicks eh

  38. SEM Member

    This is what I have learned in almost 20 years as a 1K..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" has served me V E R Y well...Also, recognizing when someone is "King of their particular hill" is almost equally as valuable...

    I am not going to get into a debate trying to defend the F/A's actions, or when it would have been appropriate to escalate the situation...The bottom line is the...

    This is what I have learned in almost 20 years as a 1K..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" has served me V E R Y well...Also, recognizing when someone is "King of their particular hill" is almost equally as valuable...

    I am not going to get into a debate trying to defend the F/A's actions, or when it would have been appropriate to escalate the situation...The bottom line is the passenger CAUSED THIS SITUATION TO START when she made the CHOICE to disobey crew member instruction[s]...That was her choice, period...

    F/A's are not lesser human beings, they are not owned, they are not indentured servants on/in our flying kingdom...Again, not that the F/A couldn't have handled this better, but at the moment that this woman made the CHOICE to have this battle, she had to accept all the possible outcomes that come with it, unfortunately including this one...

  39. Supropal New Member

    From another article quoting the lawyer that's going to represent the woman:
    https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/dao-lawyer-representing-stroller/

    "Demetrio said that the woman contacted him, and he also confirmed to the “Today Show” that neither the woman nor her baby were actually hit by the stroller."

  40. anon Guest

    And now this mother f****r wants to sue AA after getting a free upgrade and refund for breaking a rule?

    Seriously, all airlines should just ban this moron drama queen for life....

  41. Albert L Balcer Guest

    Instead of everyone filming this woman - why didn't someone try and help her? She obviously had her hands full.

    I do agree the people at the gate should have never let her on the plane with all this stuff. Or at least alert the FAs so they know what is going on or at least help to make this possible situation less tenuous. The gate & FAs and pilots all work for the same company. Looked here like they all worked for separate companies.

  42. Vince Guest

    We have the union. And, we don't care. Especially after 911.

  43. Heather Member

    Bottom line: Strollers and the personalities pushing them have gotten too big.

  44. Debit Guest

    @JP - You are so misinformed my friend. It happens a LOT LOT more on all non-american based airlines. The only difference is the entitled smart ass passengers (AMERICANS) who film these incidents and blow it out of proportions. This is why AMERICA is GREAT, You may take MY SEAT but you will NEVER TAKE MY FREEDAAAAAMM !!!!

  45. JoeMart Guest

    The question to be answered by the FA is: what part of the training provided by the airline authorizes the use of threats, emotional outbursts and battery on a pax while removing an object from the overhead compartments? If it's not in the employee manual it falls outside accepted operational procedures. Two wrongs don't make a right.

  46. VoiceOfReason Guest

    My only rooting interest in this entire spectacle is that I hope Mr White Knight Chivalry Hero gets sued ...

  47. JP Guest

    As to the question, why things like this do not happen on Asian or European Airlines, a simple answer: Americans have NO common sense!!!

Featured Comments Most helpful comments ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ).

The comments on this page have not been provided, reviewed, approved or otherwise endorsed by any advertiser, and it is not an advertiser's responsibility to ensure posts and/or questions are answered.

Steve Guest

I've flown Chinese airlines MANY times and have NEVER seen what you described (flight attendants slapping electronics out of people's hands). And when I've been told to to turn mine off, it's always very politely and never aggressively. I can't really picture an non-american flight attendant yelling at passengers like that.

0
NY Nightingale Guest

I think I can see the incident from both sides having been in the passenger's shoes a time or two, and also having had a son who was employed by the airlines for many years. I know that the woman travelling alone with two babies was stressed and edgy, while the FA felt pressed to get the flight boarded and away from the gate. The entire "situation" could have been avoided by having the woman's strollers tagged and put in the hold at the door of the jet. If the passenger needed assistance with her infants when changing planes, a wheelchair or courtesy cart could have been arranged to transport her to her connecting flight. This would have eased things for her, the flight crew AND the rest of the passengers, getting them off the ground on time.

0
Kent Guest

Hi Travis, You mention high tension. America is a competitive country, many high stressed, high paying jobs (some not so high paying but still stressful) for people. This includes the crew as well as the passengers. The tension in America just got alot higher the last two weeks whether many realize that or not. Love of what we do, passion and compassion can solve many of these situations. "That" is not in over supply in America at this time (it exists surely as we see stories, we experience it ourselves in our lives of goodness in people). We all have this wonderful compassion in our hearts. The competitive society does not persuade us to show it. But surely we have all observed it, we see it when people bring flowers to the point of incident to remember the fallen person, police or other. Some bring thoughts, some bring prayers. They are allowed, they are not encouraged. Let us encourage them. God Bless.

0
Meet Travis, OMAAT Senior Contributor
2,000,000 Miles Traveled

539,133 Words Written

193 Posts Published

Keep Exploring OMAAT